Devolution and power to the people

Mick Antoniw asks what future there is for the United Kingdom and says the decentralisation debate must be had

by Tribune Web Editor
Sunday, March 23rd, 2008

Mick Antoniw asks what future there is for the United Kingdom and says the decentralisation debate must be had

THE Labour Party is a British party. It is a democratic socialist organisation which aims to empower ordinary citizens within the United Kingdom and provide a social system that allows individuals to develop their full potential and receive the necessary requisites to live a decent and happy life.

Empowerment means different things to different people. It can be the empowerment that takes place in a community that works collectively for its own good. It can be the empowerment of the individual in having the opportunity to realise ambitions in his or her life.

In our democratic system, empowerment is about giving voice to individuals and communities and giving them the power to take decisions that affect their lives.

At governmental level, one particular measure taken by Parliament to empower people has been to devolve power to Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland.

Whereas there were clear and historic reasons why Wales and Scotland would be the starting points, with greater levels of devolution than the rest of Britain, it was to be a process of decentralisation of power that went beyond national blocks and would lead to regional assemblies in the regions of England, based on regional development councils.

However, since the establishment of the Welsh Assembly, Scottish Parliament and the Greater London Authority, and the failed referendum in the north-east of England, the constitutional debate has been left in a vacuum. There appears to have been little further thought, leaving our constitutional structure in a dangerous conundrum.

But despite the lack of any real discussion, the dialectical impact of the devolution process continues in diverse and dangerous ways.

There is a desperate need for Labour to resurrect the debate and develop a strategy for the completion of the devolution process. Unless this happens the debate will be taken over by reactionaries in the Tory Party or separatists in the various nationalist movements.

Nationalists argue that devolution is a step towards independence and separation. The Tories argue that England has lost out by subsidising Wales and Scotland while becoming increasingly a second rate player within the UK. Their solutions are either to reduce the number of Welsh and Scottish MPs or to create an English parliament. They have this in common with the nationalists. Even some leading Labour MPs and ministers have suggested this as a credible constitutional solution.

The devolutionists within the Liberal Democrats offer a bit of everything to everyone: independent countries within a federal structure. Socialists, by and large, do not have a coherent and consistent position.

What no one has done to any great extent is analyse the nature of the constitutional changes there have already been and place them in an ideological context.

Devolution is a delegation of power from Westminster. The core, residual power remains with the UK Parliament. Particularly in Scotland and to a degree in Wales, the ability to legislate in certain areas is devolved. There is nothing unique in this. For many years, particularly before Margaret Thatcher launched her assault on local government, local authorities had similar – albeit much lesser – powers. They could raise taxes through the rates and pass by-laws. Devolution is a radical extension of this process.

Within this framework, what would the establishment of an English parliament achieve? Almost certainly it would result in the division and separation of Britain into separate national blocks. That is why the nationalists support the proposal.
But why does David Cameron’s Conservative Party appear to be heading in this direction? It is partly out of a lack of understanding of our unwritten constitution and the process of decentralisation, which they do not support, and partly out of opportunism.

Suggesting the need for an English Parliament plays to English nationalist sentiment – the view that the Scots and Welsh have got it all and the English are paying for it.

The Barnett formula is a subsidy, the Tories say, of Wales and Scotland by the English. They dislike the Barnett formula as a progressive socialist measure for the redistribution of wealth throughout Britain. To an extent, they play on anti-Welsh and anti-Scottish sentiments to present themselves as champions of the English.

An alternative proposition is that Welsh and Scottish MPs should not be able to vote on devolved matters affecting England.

Both these proposals ignore the constitutional nature of devolution. MPs can vote on any matter in the UK unless they have chosen to devolve it to another body.

The fact that there has not been devolution in England (with the exception of the GLA) does not constitutionally justify the limitation of what Welsh and Scottish MPs can do. Nor does it justify a reduction in their numbers. To suggest otherwise is effectively to advocate the break-up of the UK and its replacement with a federal structure.

The real reason for the Tory support for these proposals is that any reduction in the number or power of Welsh and Scottish MPs (who are predominantly Labour) would give the Tories a better chance of achieving and ultimately retaining power. Their motivation is predominantly one of party political interest.

There is now a desperate need to re-invigorate the devolution debate, not so much in Wales and Scotland, but in England. We need to develop a new strategy for the decentralisation of power to the regions of England. This needs to be a comprehensive policy applied to the whole of Britain to complete the processes started in 1997.

It needs to be seen as a completion of the process of decentralisation – that is, bringing power closer to people and allowing them to take more decisions on matters that affect them locally.

Doubters argue that we tried this in the north-east of England and people didn’t want it. But we shouldn’t forget that, in 1979, Wales also rejected devolution on arguments very similar to those made against the proposals in the north-east.
To some, the powers being offered to a regional assembly were so limited that people didn’t think it was worth having. To other, it seemed the Labour Government didn’t really have its heart in the process.

We now need to rethink our proposals on the decentralisation of power and the constitutional structure necessary to enable decentralisation to succeed while still retaining the United Kingdom and an effective British Parliament. This will have implications for the structure of the House of Commons and the House of Lords, as well as local government.
The labour movement in England needs to be engaged. There is little understanding of the devolution process outside Wales and Scotland. It is vital that the debate in England takes place within an environment where there is a proper understanding of the constitutional basis for devolution to enable the development of a strategy for decentralising power in Britain within an effective central democratic structure.

Failure to do this will lead to measures that could lead to break-up of the UK as we know it or an attack on the powers devolved to Wales and Scotland. Both these scenarios are dangerously reactionary with the potential to undermine the stability, prosperity and well-being of all the inhabitants of Britain.

Mick Antoniw is a partner with Thompsons, the trade union solicitors, and a member of Newport West CLP

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  • Terry

    Mick, a few points on your article

    1. Barnett is not progressive because it is not based upon need. There are needier areas in England and Wales that are more deserving.

    2. The GLA is not a devolved body. It cannot set Health or Education policies.

    3. The Government bent over backwards to ensure that any devolutionary settlement was based upon the Nation. It made little administrative sense because Scotland is twice the size of Wales and Wales is twice the size of NI.

    4. Out of a union of four nations, to ensure a national settlement for three of them and something different for the forth will (has?) breed resentment and this resentment will threaten the union.

    5. As you point out, Labour is a British movement and unequal treatment for England will threaten the Party as much as it threatens the Union.

    It is vital that the Labour movement gets involved in this debate. Given Labour’s position, it was crazy to embark on a nationalist devolution model, but they did and we are where we are. Don’t dismiss out of hand the only fair solution, based upon what the other three have. The SNP are painting Labour as the “anti-Scottish” Party, don’t let Labour become the anti-English Part too.

  • Terry

    Mick, a few points on your article

    1. Barnett is not progressive because it is not based upon need. There are needier areas in England and Wales that are more deserving.

    2. The GLA is not a devolved body. It cannot set Health or Education policies.

    3. The Government bent over backwards to ensure that any devolutionary settlement was based upon the Nation. It made little administrative sense because Scotland is twice the size of Wales and Wales is twice the size of NI.

    4. Out of a union of four nations, to ensure a national settlement for three of them and something different for the forth will (has?) breed resentment and this resentment will threaten the union.

    5. As you point out, Labour is a British movement and unequal treatment for England will threaten the Party as much as it threatens the Union.

    It is vital that the Labour movement gets involved in this debate. Given Labour’s position, it was crazy to embark on a nationalist devolution model, but they did and we are where we are. Don’t dismiss out of hand the only fair solution, based upon what the other three have. The SNP are painting Labour as the “anti-Scottish” Party, don’t let Labour become the anti-English Part too.

  • http://crossofstgeorge.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=28&sid=a4cd43013261f25100a106071c15ca47 tally

    britain is already 75% seperated into national blocks England will make it 100%.
    New Labour is already seen as an anti English Party and the lib/dems are not far behind.
    The real reason the tories are pushing to stop scottish welsh and irish mp’s voting on English affairs is because it’s fair.
    at least 20 mp’s from all parties signed Frank Field’s Early Day Motion calling for an English Parliament. He did this as a result of polls showing that when asked the English agreed in English autonomy.
    Will you constantly ignore the wishes of the English people?
    New Labour will not touch regional assemblies again with a barge pole so you should forget it/

  • http://crossofstgeorge.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=28&sid=a4cd43013261f25100a106071c15ca47 tally

    britain is already 75% seperated into national blocks England will make it 100%.
    New Labour is already seen as an anti English Party and the lib/dems are not far behind.
    The real reason the tories are pushing to stop scottish welsh and irish mp’s voting on English affairs is because it’s fair.
    at least 20 mp’s from all parties signed Frank Field’s Early Day Motion calling for an English Parliament. He did this as a result of polls showing that when asked the English agreed in English autonomy.
    Will you constantly ignore the wishes of the English people?
    New Labour will not touch regional assemblies again with a barge pole so you should forget it/

  • http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/England-freedom/ Stephen Gash

    Mick quote: “The Tories argue that England has lost out by subsidising Wales and Scotland while becoming increasingly a second rate player within the UK. Their solutions are either to reduce the number of Welsh and Scottish MPs or to create an English parliament.”
    Where do you get that idea? The Tories, especially under ‘I’m a Jock’ Cameron are implaccably opposed to an English Parliament. Tell me this Mick, if you get your wish and England is bust up into regions do you think this will stop Scottish and Welsh nationalism? Of course not. They will still go their separate ways and England will be no more. The English paople will be disenfranchised and powerless, which is exactly where people like you want us to be.

  • http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/England-freedom/ Stephen Gash

    Mick quote: “The Tories argue that England has lost out by subsidising Wales and Scotland while becoming increasingly a second rate player within the UK. Their solutions are either to reduce the number of Welsh and Scottish MPs or to create an English parliament.”
    Where do you get that idea? The Tories, especially under ‘I’m a Jock’ Cameron are implaccably opposed to an English Parliament. Tell me this Mick, if you get your wish and England is bust up into regions do you think this will stop Scottish and Welsh nationalism? Of course not. They will still go their separate ways and England will be no more. The English paople will be disenfranchised and powerless, which is exactly where people like you want us to be.

  • Lee Jakeman

    The Union is finished. It will either be replaced by a federation, or it will be replaced by four independent nations. Either way, the English are going to get their national parliament.

  • Lee Jakeman

    The Union is finished. It will either be replaced by a federation, or it will be replaced by four independent nations. Either way, the English are going to get their national parliament.

  • Christine Constable

    Labour and Tribune are clearly antidemocratic.

    If the people of Wales and Scotland were ASKED about devolution and the model they wanted, why can’t the people of England be treated in the same way?

    Surely the denial of the right of the people of England to speak or decide on their own future is a purely “party political” issue preoccupying the Labour party, because they (correctly) realise that once their MPs from Scotalnd and Wales are removed from the UK Parliament, Labour will become a minority party in England, probably forever.

    It has nothing to do with devolution, but all to do with power and keeping it.

    Let’s focus on the truth for a change, and accept that the Labour party despise democracy, one of the reasons it won’t accept the 79% rejections of Regions in the north East – when will Labour accept NO means NO???

  • Christine Constable

    Labour and Tribune are clearly antidemocratic.

    If the people of Wales and Scotland were ASKED about devolution and the model they wanted, why can’t the people of England be treated in the same way?

    Surely the denial of the right of the people of England to speak or decide on their own future is a purely “party political” issue preoccupying the Labour party, because they (correctly) realise that once their MPs from Scotalnd and Wales are removed from the UK Parliament, Labour will become a minority party in England, probably forever.

    It has nothing to do with devolution, but all to do with power and keeping it.

    Let’s focus on the truth for a change, and accept that the Labour party despise democracy, one of the reasons it won’t accept the 79% rejections of Regions in the north East – when will Labour accept NO means NO???

  • Ian Campbell

    Mick’s analysis overlooks completely that (a) England is a nation and (b) the people of England have not yet been given a democratic vote on whether or not they wish to have their own Parliament. It is the Unionists parties which are afraid of English democracy. The English do not wish to see their country broken up into regions without having its own political voice.
    In the 21st Century the Union should rest on the consent of the people, as very clearly expressed in the Claim of Right for Scotland, signed by a number of prominent Labour politicians, including Gordon Brown. However desirable regionalism appears to the Unionists, there is no case on forcing it on the people of England while withholding their right to vote for or against having their own national assembly.
    Moreover, if the English did vote for their own assembly, this would almost certainly be elected on a PR system as in Scotland, Wales and N Ireland. The devolved assemblies are not only ‘closer to the people’, they are national, reflect more fairly the different opinions of the voters and are more responsive to th electorate. Preserving the Union at present means keeping the ‘first past the post’ system which enables governments to win large majorities on a minority of the popular vote and then impose polices on which they claim a ‘mandate’ by whipping their MPs into line. This is not a democracy. In this system,as Mick points out, UK MPs can vote only any matters which are not devolved – this allows MPs from Scotland, Wales and N Ireland to assist the Government in imposing its policies on England. It is no coincidence that the MPs who rebel least are those from Scotland.
    Tribute should demand a referendum in England in which the same question, but relating to England, is asked of the English as was asked of Scots. Let the people speak.

  • Ian Campbell

    Mick’s analysis overlooks completely that (a) England is a nation and (b) the people of England have not yet been given a democratic vote on whether or not they wish to have their own Parliament. It is the Unionists parties which are afraid of English democracy. The English do not wish to see their country broken up into regions without having its own political voice.
    In the 21st Century the Union should rest on the consent of the people, as very clearly expressed in the Claim of Right for Scotland, signed by a number of prominent Labour politicians, including Gordon Brown. However desirable regionalism appears to the Unionists, there is no case on forcing it on the people of England while withholding their right to vote for or against having their own national assembly.
    Moreover, if the English did vote for their own assembly, this would almost certainly be elected on a PR system as in Scotland, Wales and N Ireland. The devolved assemblies are not only ‘closer to the people’, they are national, reflect more fairly the different opinions of the voters and are more responsive to th electorate. Preserving the Union at present means keeping the ‘first past the post’ system which enables governments to win large majorities on a minority of the popular vote and then impose polices on which they claim a ‘mandate’ by whipping their MPs into line. This is not a democracy. In this system,as Mick points out, UK MPs can vote only any matters which are not devolved – this allows MPs from Scotland, Wales and N Ireland to assist the Government in imposing its policies on England. It is no coincidence that the MPs who rebel least are those from Scotland.
    Tribute should demand a referendum in England in which the same question, but relating to England, is asked of the English as was asked of Scots. Let the people speak.

  • E.Justice

    How many permutations of this argument have we heard??
    Mr. Antoniw, England will have her own Parliament, The End!!!!

  • E.Justice

    How many permutations of this argument have we heard??
    Mr. Antoniw, England will have her own Parliament, The End!!!!

  • Denis Latimer

    There should be no debate about MPs from devolved arears voting on devolved matters anywhere : they are no longer responsible for devolved matters, they do not represent their constituents for devolved matters, they are not answerable to their constituents for any actions they take regarding devolved matters. In other words, they are not elected to deal with such matters and therefore have no democratic right to deal with them. It is said that we cannot have two classes of MP in the House but that is what we have now : those elected in England to perform the full range of affairs for which the House is responsible and those elected to deal only with affairs which have not been devolved.

  • Denis Latimer

    There should be no debate about MPs from devolved arears voting on devolved matters anywhere : they are no longer responsible for devolved matters, they do not represent their constituents for devolved matters, they are not answerable to their constituents for any actions they take regarding devolved matters. In other words, they are not elected to deal with such matters and therefore have no democratic right to deal with them. It is said that we cannot have two classes of MP in the House but that is what we have now : those elected in England to perform the full range of affairs for which the House is responsible and those elected to deal only with affairs which have not been devolved.

  • Kahn

    “Whereas there were clear and historic reasons why Wales and Scotland would be the starting points, with greater levels of devolution than the rest of Britain, it was to be a process of decentralisation of power that went beyond national blocks and would lead to regional assemblies in the regions of England ”

    This is rich for its innate bogotry and implied national hatred. You openly admit that Scotland and Wales should have national assemblies and governments for “historical reasons”and yet the equally historical country of England must be denied the same. We should get regions ie specifically not a national assembly and government .

    Can the author espy a little bit of bias here ?

  • Kahn

    “Whereas there were clear and historic reasons why Wales and Scotland would be the starting points, with greater levels of devolution than the rest of Britain, it was to be a process of decentralisation of power that went beyond national blocks and would lead to regional assemblies in the regions of England ”

    This is rich for its innate bogotry and implied national hatred. You openly admit that Scotland and Wales should have national assemblies and governments for “historical reasons”and yet the equally historical country of England must be denied the same. We should get regions ie specifically not a national assembly and government .

    Can the author espy a little bit of bias here ?

  • Terry

    Spot on Kahn, absolutely spot on!

  • Terry

    Spot on Kahn, absolutely spot on!

  • Tom

    Labour have turned the UK (Unequal Kingdom) into a democratic banana republic. The Scots in Gordon Browns constituency of Kirkcaldy vote him in to make laws for England but not for themselves. GB then makes laws for England knowing full well they won’t affect his own country / constituents – surely a recipe for an England hater to run amok with mischievous legislation.

    Vote Labour – Proudly replacing village post offices and pubs with surveillance cameras! Proudly taking from the poor and giving to the rich by scrapping the 10p tax band.
    Ad infinitum.

  • Tom

    Labour have turned the UK (Unequal Kingdom) into a democratic banana republic. The Scots in Gordon Browns constituency of Kirkcaldy vote him in to make laws for England but not for themselves. GB then makes laws for England knowing full well they won’t affect his own country / constituents – surely a recipe for an England hater to run amok with mischievous legislation.

    Vote Labour – Proudly replacing village post offices and pubs with surveillance cameras! Proudly taking from the poor and giving to the rich by scrapping the 10p tax band.
    Ad infinitum.

  • Charlie

    The word ” reasonable ” is frequently used in the Magna Carta. What is reasonable about Scottish MPs voting on issues which only effect English people? Magna Carta though forced on the King by barons seems to incorporate much of the spirit of Anglo Saxon customs and laws, namely a much more consual style of rule. Anglo Saxon society was relatively devolved when compared to the feudal society which evolved post Charlemagne. By 1050 much of Christian Europe was run by a hereditary military aristocracy combined with the hire of mercenaries. Anglo Saxon Engand relied militarily on a small royal guard with summoning able men to bring their weapons ina a time of crisis. In addition there was extensive and well recognised rules concerning ownership of land, mills , fish traps etc which enabled people to earn a living. Consequently Anglo Saxon England was governed by a well established sets of rules which had the support of most of the populace. After winning the Battle of Hastings, when Wiliam the Bastard promised to uphold the Laws of Edward the Confessor, he gained the support of much of the populace and therefore undermined the support for the House of Godwin.

    A major cause for the Americans in their independence struggle was the unwillingness of the Hanoverian Monarchy to allow them to send representatives to The House Of Commons. Many Whigs and especially thosed in trade and manufacture supported the Americans.
    Once the English consider a political party to be acting unreasonably then they will lose the argument. Many one nation Conservatives consdered Joe Gormley and the Miners quite reasonable and Heath lacked support. The action of Scargill and the flying pickets were considered unreasonable. Therefore in the strike of 1984-1985 Thatcher received the support that Heath lacked.

  • Charlie

    The word ” reasonable ” is frequently used in the Magna Carta. What is reasonable about Scottish MPs voting on issues which only effect English people? Magna Carta though forced on the King by barons seems to incorporate much of the spirit of Anglo Saxon customs and laws, namely a much more consual style of rule. Anglo Saxon society was relatively devolved when compared to the feudal society which evolved post Charlemagne. By 1050 much of Christian Europe was run by a hereditary military aristocracy combined with the hire of mercenaries. Anglo Saxon Engand relied militarily on a small royal guard with summoning able men to bring their weapons ina a time of crisis. In addition there was extensive and well recognised rules concerning ownership of land, mills , fish traps etc which enabled people to earn a living. Consequently Anglo Saxon England was governed by a well established sets of rules which had the support of most of the populace. After winning the Battle of Hastings, when Wiliam the Bastard promised to uphold the Laws of Edward the Confessor, he gained the support of much of the populace and therefore undermined the support for the House of Godwin.

    A major cause for the Americans in their independence struggle was the unwillingness of the Hanoverian Monarchy to allow them to send representatives to The House Of Commons. Many Whigs and especially thosed in trade and manufacture supported the Americans.
    Once the English consider a political party to be acting unreasonably then they will lose the argument. Many one nation Conservatives consdered Joe Gormley and the Miners quite reasonable and Heath lacked support. The action of Scargill and the flying pickets were considered unreasonable. Therefore in the strike of 1984-1985 Thatcher received the support that Heath lacked.

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