Primaries would only help the rich and privileged

US-style primaries are not what we need to restore trust in politics, argues Luciana Berger

by Tribune Web Editor
Friday, November 6th, 2009

US-style primaries are not what we need to restore trust in politics, argues Luciana Berger

Public confidence in politics is at an all-time low. There’s a real danger that, in the ongoing furore surrounding MPs’ expenses, people will lose sight of the importance of democracy. So it is an absolute imperative that political parties address how faith in politics can be restored.

Some think primaries would be useful for civic engagement. However, the notion of extending the parliamentary selectorate as a panacea for recent scandals ignores the absence of any real research or knowledge of the outcome. It’s the wrong process to achieve the right goal.

The point of a primary is that it is a tool for selecting candidates.

The principal concern ought to be who represents us in Parliament for 365 days a year, for four to five years. That – far more than the system of determining candidates – is what will really engage people.

Introducing a primary selection system would do nothing to improve the diversity of parliamentarians, but would make it impossible for poor candidates to beat rich ones.

At present, as far as Labour is concerned, the local party controls what happens before a selection opens. There is no primary culture in the current selection process. Except by being famous, which can’t be legislated against, it’s impossible to gain a pre-selection advantage – other than by turning up to meetings and events, engaging with local members and being active in the community. There is virtually nothing that someone with money who wants to be an MP, but can’t be bothered to get involved, can do to gain an advantage.

However, once a constituency’s selectorate jumps from, say, 300 party members to 15,000 registered Labour supporters in a closed primary or caucus or 60,000 in an open primary, the possible modes of communicating are radically altered. Rather than being able to speak with all selectors individually, a candidate is forced to pursue other channels. There is nothing to stop a prospective primary candidate writing a letter to 15,000 or even 60,000 people every week for the one, two or three years before the primary opens, subtly or unsubtly canvassing support. Nothing except money, of course. At 40p a letter, that’s anything up to £375,000 on stationery and postage, even before renting an office and employing staff.

Nevertheless, if a political hopeful is able to contact such a large number of people directly, they are more likely to be selected. Certainly, they will increase their level of engagement with local people. But first they need to be rich.

If direct mail, automated phone calls, visits from paid canvassers, adverts on television, along with e-marketing and so on, start in one constituency, another will follow and then another. And that will become the norm. Do we really want the British system to becomes like the American one, where you can’t enter national representative politics without the cash to do so?

In the United States, the campaign to re-elect Mike Bloomberg as Mayor of New York recently knocked on its millionth door. That’s an impressive achievement, but it was only possible because those doing the knocking were paid to do so. Bloomberg is a billionaire. When the Democrats declined to pick him as their candidate in 2001, he switched to the Republicans. Disloyalty? He still won. That is how primaries work. And that is for whom they work.

Eventually, though, there is no need for a primary. Having changed the law to permit himself a third term, Bloomberg is now running as an independent. He is almost certain to win again. He is New York’s richest citizen. But politics should not be the business of dilettantes to the disadvantage of talented and committed people who simply don’t have the funds to compete.

To say there could be spending limits is disingenuous or misguided. How long before a primary could a democracy enforce spending limits? Three months? Six months? What about the curtailment of free speech?

Tory deputy chairman Michael Aschcroft is already using his millions to subvert Labour candidates in marginal seats. Under a primary system, his money might be used to determine our representatives, too. But that surely can’t be what we mean by Labour broadening its appeal.

Primaries would have a disastrous impact on the diversity of our Parliament. We should be proud of what Labour has done to change the composition of those who represent us at Westminster. Despite internal and external opposition, Labour has pursued positive discrimination for more than 12 years, using all-women shortlists to get more women into the House of Commons. This Labour Government amended the law in 2002 when there were legal challenges to all-women shortlists.

It was thanks to Labour that female parliamentary representation doubled from 9 per cent to 18 per cent in 1997. Could that have happened using primaries?

Of course, the numbers of disabled, those from ethnic minority backgrounds and gay and transgendered people are not reflected in Parliament. We need to do much more to change this situation. But primaries are not a progressive prescription for doing so. The result of their introduction would be to send more people from well-off, middle-class and white backgrounds to Westminster.

This is not to argue for the status quo. Doing nothing must not be an option. Labour needs to widen its supporter base and reach out beyond its activists to ordinary voters. The party needs to embrace local community organisations more effectively and engage fully with online media and social networking groups. Labour needs to get out from its ghetto and talk to people on their streets, in their web spaces and in their workplaces, where the trade unions have millions of members.

If we’re serious about engaging with the British people, this must involve a great deal more than something that only takes place every few years. That’s why primaries are unlikely to lead to a revival of civic-minded progressivism. As the Electoral Reform Society put it: “Primaries should not be a diversion from the reforms that are really needed.”

Gordon Brown’s commitment to hold a referendum on switching to the alternative vote system should go some way towards making every election vote count. The proposed introduction of a democratic second chamber is another step in the right direction.

Our Parliament should be made up of people who properly reflect our society. That means candidates from all backgrounds should be able to put themselves forward and have a fair chance of winning. Introducing primaries would not help towards that. In fact, it would only make things worse.

Luciana Berger is director of Labour Friends of Israel

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  • http://www.progressonline.org.uk/consultations/primetime/ Jessica Asato

    Hi Luciana,

    I think your piece misses the point a bit in the sense that, in the Labour Party at least, no one (except maybe Frank Field) is proposing US-style open primaries. And the idea that no one who is wealthy in the Labour Party has a pre-selection advantage is absolutely, totally laughable. I know two candidates who have recently got flats in the constituencies where they have gone for selection while also maintaining a home in London. I can’t see someone on the minimum wage managing to do that – can you? Unions who back candidates sometimes give money for their literature and often the postage goes through the union. Are you seriously saying that this doesn’t have an effect on the selection? In our survey of Labour PPC’s a number of them spent thousands of pounds to get selected. For the vast majority of people, this would be prohibitive. No one is talking about spending millions on a primary. Progress has proposed a cap of £2000 – this could easily be raised by a £1 donation from 2000 supporters – about the sort of support we’d expect a candidate to be getting if they are going to win a parliamentary primary.

    As for primaries having an impact on gender equality – Sarah Wollaston was selected in Totnes in the Tories’ open primary, despite there being a good local man. Obviously this is only one example, but so far there doesn’t seem to be any bias against women in the Tories’ primary selections. And there’s a very easy way of ensuring that women in the Labour Party continue to be selected – have a primary of an all women shortlist.

    I welcome the debate on primaries, but I wish that instead of constantly looking at the US model, you’d look at our instead which has fewer deficiencies.

    Best,

    Jessica

  • http://www.progressonline.org.uk/consultations/primetime/ Jessica Asato

    Hi Luciana,

    I think your piece misses the point a bit in the sense that, in the Labour Party at least, no one (except maybe Frank Field) is proposing US-style open primaries. And the idea that no one who is wealthy in the Labour Party has a pre-selection advantage is absolutely, totally laughable. I know two candidates who have recently got flats in the constituencies where they have gone for selection while also maintaining a home in London. I can’t see someone on the minimum wage managing to do that – can you? Unions who back candidates sometimes give money for their literature and often the postage goes through the union. Are you seriously saying that this doesn’t have an effect on the selection? In our survey of Labour PPC’s a number of them spent thousands of pounds to get selected. For the vast majority of people, this would be prohibitive. No one is talking about spending millions on a primary. Progress has proposed a cap of £2000 – this could easily be raised by a £1 donation from 2000 supporters – about the sort of support we’d expect a candidate to be getting if they are going to win a parliamentary primary.

    As for primaries having an impact on gender equality – Sarah Wollaston was selected in Totnes in the Tories’ open primary, despite there being a good local man. Obviously this is only one example, but so far there doesn’t seem to be any bias against women in the Tories’ primary selections. And there’s a very easy way of ensuring that women in the Labour Party continue to be selected – have a primary of an all women shortlist.

    I welcome the debate on primaries, but I wish that instead of constantly looking at the US model, you’d look at our instead which has fewer deficiencies.

    Best,

    Jessica

  • Gideon

    Surely to come to an answer in this debate, we should consider bigger questions than simply partisan ones, and not get hung up on design issues.

    Primaries really should not merely be seen as a selection pool in isolation, and not simply for ‘vacant’ seats, but they are likely to impact upon both the subsequent election and being in office.

    - do primaries help or hinder efforts to win the subsequent election?

    - would primaries produce better or worse people if they win election and take office. (This should not just be about MPs – same consideration could apply to all posts)

    - how will those elected, who face a primary to be renominated behave in office?

    Obviously the devil is in the detail, but it seems to me on the first that it is hard to see how testing campaigning and organisational skills and the ability to connect with people amongst a much wider group of the electorate that you want to vote in the subsequent election, can be anything other than beneficial. It also potentially prevent overly loyal local parties sticking with MPs who are going to lose at the election, when a new candidate might have a better chance.

    My strong suspicion is that if designed correctly, better people who haven’t spent years in party positions will come forward. Yes we need some of the usual suspects in parliament, but public policy would surely benefit from people who spent their 20s and 30s putting their energy into other non political things such as starting a business, working abroad for international development, running (rather than advising) organisations from all sectors, or perhaps bringing up a family. I don’t see too many of these people coming through under current arrangements.

    On the last question – how many chosen candidates have gone on to disappoint aspirations of those selecting them, perhaps trimming policy to get on, or being less outspoken on issues that matter. The knowledge that they would have to do it all again when the time comes, could well lead to better engagement between elections – especially in safer seats.

    Also think debate would benefit from not just using parts of the US for examples, many other countries use processes that look like primaries.

    Gideon

  • Gideon

    Surely to come to an answer in this debate, we should consider bigger questions than simply partisan ones, and not get hung up on design issues.

    Primaries really should not merely be seen as a selection pool in isolation, and not simply for ‘vacant’ seats, but they are likely to impact upon both the subsequent election and being in office.

    - do primaries help or hinder efforts to win the subsequent election?

    - would primaries produce better or worse people if they win election and take office. (This should not just be about MPs – same consideration could apply to all posts)

    - how will those elected, who face a primary to be renominated behave in office?

    Obviously the devil is in the detail, but it seems to me on the first that it is hard to see how testing campaigning and organisational skills and the ability to connect with people amongst a much wider group of the electorate that you want to vote in the subsequent election, can be anything other than beneficial. It also potentially prevent overly loyal local parties sticking with MPs who are going to lose at the election, when a new candidate might have a better chance.

    My strong suspicion is that if designed correctly, better people who haven’t spent years in party positions will come forward. Yes we need some of the usual suspects in parliament, but public policy would surely benefit from people who spent their 20s and 30s putting their energy into other non political things such as starting a business, working abroad for international development, running (rather than advising) organisations from all sectors, or perhaps bringing up a family. I don’t see too many of these people coming through under current arrangements.

    On the last question – how many chosen candidates have gone on to disappoint aspirations of those selecting them, perhaps trimming policy to get on, or being less outspoken on issues that matter. The knowledge that they would have to do it all again when the time comes, could well lead to better engagement between elections – especially in safer seats.

    Also think debate would benefit from not just using parts of the US for examples, many other countries use processes that look like primaries.

    Gideon

  • http://www.lucianaberger.com Luciana Berger

    Hi Jessica,

    Thank you for your comments.

    While the headline might suggest otherwise, my article discusses the range of primary possibilities from a relatively closed caucus to an open primary. But whichever type of primary is pursued, the principle doesn’t change. When you extend the selectorate to one which only mass communications can reach, you create an advantage for money with which lack of it cannot compete.

    Yes, the Conservatives selected a woman in their Totnes primary. But this isn’t the only open primary they have run. Research out yesterday from the Centre for Women and Democracy (www.cfwd.org.uk) shows that of the 73 Conservative Associations to have run an open primary since they first introduced the process in 2003, only 15% of candidates selected in seats where the sitting Conservative MP is retiring are female.

    Obviously, some candidates profit from their greater wealth under the current system too. There is, after all, almost no aspect of human endeavour where wealth doesn’t give an advantage. But by widening the selectorate for a primary, the advantage is massively amplified. It’s the reason why billionaire Silvio Berlusconi is the Prime Minister of Italy, billionaire Mike Bloomberg is the Mayor of New York, but neither of them would have been selected as the Labour PPC for Barrow.

    Yes, some people have spent lots on their selections under the current system, but in the research conducted by Will Straw of 101 selected PPCs, the average (median) spend per candidate was £90.

    This constant talk of spending limits, £2,000 or otherwise, is either disingenuous or naïve. You have repeated it again without addressing at all the point I clearly make: spending limits in a democracy can only be imposed fairly shortly before the campaign itself. They can’t prevent money being spent before the cut off begins. As we have seen up and down the UK, Michael Ashcroft is already using his millions unfairly against our labour candidates in key marginals. Not during the four weeks of the short campaign, but during the four years in between when elections – and primaries in your future – are won and lost. Do we really want Michael Ashcroft, or some 21st century Robert Maxwell, choosing our candidates too? Or a Parliamentary Labour Party full of such people? Of rich white men who have become the only ones who can afford to get selected?

  • http://www.lucianaberger.com Luciana Berger

    Hi Jessica,

    Thank you for your comments.

    While the headline might suggest otherwise, my article discusses the range of primary possibilities from a relatively closed caucus to an open primary. But whichever type of primary is pursued, the principle doesn’t change. When you extend the selectorate to one which only mass communications can reach, you create an advantage for money with which lack of it cannot compete.

    Yes, the Conservatives selected a woman in their Totnes primary. But this isn’t the only open primary they have run. Research out yesterday from the Centre for Women and Democracy (www.cfwd.org.uk) shows that of the 73 Conservative Associations to have run an open primary since they first introduced the process in 2003, only 15% of candidates selected in seats where the sitting Conservative MP is retiring are female.

    Obviously, some candidates profit from their greater wealth under the current system too. There is, after all, almost no aspect of human endeavour where wealth doesn’t give an advantage. But by widening the selectorate for a primary, the advantage is massively amplified. It’s the reason why billionaire Silvio Berlusconi is the Prime Minister of Italy, billionaire Mike Bloomberg is the Mayor of New York, but neither of them would have been selected as the Labour PPC for Barrow.

    Yes, some people have spent lots on their selections under the current system, but in the research conducted by Will Straw of 101 selected PPCs, the average (median) spend per candidate was £90.

    This constant talk of spending limits, £2,000 or otherwise, is either disingenuous or naïve. You have repeated it again without addressing at all the point I clearly make: spending limits in a democracy can only be imposed fairly shortly before the campaign itself. They can’t prevent money being spent before the cut off begins. As we have seen up and down the UK, Michael Ashcroft is already using his millions unfairly against our labour candidates in key marginals. Not during the four weeks of the short campaign, but during the four years in between when elections – and primaries in your future – are won and lost. Do we really want Michael Ashcroft, or some 21st century Robert Maxwell, choosing our candidates too? Or a Parliamentary Labour Party full of such people? Of rich white men who have become the only ones who can afford to get selected?

  • Lazzaro Pietragnoli

    Dear Luciana, I find your analysis deeply rooted in the XIX century political culture, when parties were the only repository of political activities, and both their ideological stance and vertical organization were a guaranteed for selecting the best candidates.
    In your idea party members are always transparent and honest in their choice, while the “wild world outside” is prone to bad influences and corruption.

    Times have chaged, and to be harsh but honest with you, if someone has the money and the will for “buying” his/her selection it would be much more easier to “persuade” 50 branch members, than 15.000 supporters.

    Your idea of a well-ordered internal selection opposed to chaotic, media-controlled primaries is out of touch with the reality, where primaries can be regulated in order to avoid many of the problems that you suggested (problems that in my opinion are not a feature of primaries but are shared by any process of selection).

    The experience of the Italian Democratic Party (where open primaries both for electoral nomination and for party position are a constitutional rule) shows that involving party supporters in the life of the party (and not just knocking on their doors once every four years) has a beneficial impact for the party, as, believe it or not, party sympathisers are not a dog to keep on the lead, but a force that should be liberated.

    A process of selection that involves 15.000 persons will cause a deeper and harder scrutiny of the candidates’ real intentions, of their local committment, of their political ideas and values. As for the problem of the media, well, let’s say that is something that goes well beyond the selection of candidates and is nowadays a major political issue in the development of our democracies in the XXI century.

    Of course primaries are not the only solution and many of the things that you suggest at the end of your article have to be implemented, but it would be easier to do it if we introduce a radical change in the selection process and force the party to interact with the wider public.

  • Lazzaro Pietragnoli

    Dear Luciana, I find your analysis deeply rooted in the XIX century political culture, when parties were the only repository of political activities, and both their ideological stance and vertical organization were a guaranteed for selecting the best candidates.
    In your idea party members are always transparent and honest in their choice, while the “wild world outside” is prone to bad influences and corruption.

    Times have chaged, and to be harsh but honest with you, if someone has the money and the will for “buying” his/her selection it would be much more easier to “persuade” 50 branch members, than 15.000 supporters.

    Your idea of a well-ordered internal selection opposed to chaotic, media-controlled primaries is out of touch with the reality, where primaries can be regulated in order to avoid many of the problems that you suggested (problems that in my opinion are not a feature of primaries but are shared by any process of selection).

    The experience of the Italian Democratic Party (where open primaries both for electoral nomination and for party position are a constitutional rule) shows that involving party supporters in the life of the party (and not just knocking on their doors once every four years) has a beneficial impact for the party, as, believe it or not, party sympathisers are not a dog to keep on the lead, but a force that should be liberated.

    A process of selection that involves 15.000 persons will cause a deeper and harder scrutiny of the candidates’ real intentions, of their local committment, of their political ideas and values. As for the problem of the media, well, let’s say that is something that goes well beyond the selection of candidates and is nowadays a major political issue in the development of our democracies in the XXI century.

    Of course primaries are not the only solution and many of the things that you suggest at the end of your article have to be implemented, but it would be easier to do it if we introduce a radical change in the selection process and force the party to interact with the wider public.

  • http://www.progressonline.org.uk Jessica Asato

    Hi Luciana,

    Thanks for responding. I will try and answer all your points.

    I think that the type of primary does matter very much indeed. Obviously it will be much easier for people with wealth to influence an open primary with no spending limits, than it would the system Progress is suggesting. But you’re right, you will still need some money in order to win a primary. My response to this is to reiterate the fact that if the number of people who are turning out to support you are only in the lower thousands, the money you would have to raise would not be prohibitive. As we know from Barack Obama’s campaign, it was the small donations from individuals which helped so much and kept people engaged with what Obama did. It’s been these donations which have helped to get the healthcare bill through too. In a way, primaries could help us to think about building support from the people, rather than simply reaching into our own, or the union’s pockets for support.

    As for your point about spending in between primary selections, well one answer to that would be to regulate that too. Either cap it or outlaw it big spending. I wish we’d done the same for General Election spending with Ashcroft. I support state funding of political parties in any case and if Labour had had more guts we would have introduced it.

    I don’t think you can credit Berlusconi’s rise because of spending money on primaries. I think it’s more to do with the media empire he has built which allows him free rein to purchase people’s support. As for Bloomberg, once again, I’m not talking about the US system – in America it’s illegal to cap election spending, so it’s no wonder that only rich people can get elected.

    I think that your worries on spending are genuine but as long as you design the system right, I don’t think they are justified.

    You didn’t answer my point fully about what you think is so great about the current system where wealth and patronge play such a big part? Do you think it is fair that someone who has enough money, and is in a political job and therefore is given time off, has a better advantage in a Labour selection than someone who works outside of politics on the average wage? I am not saying that people who are selected in the current process won’t make great MPs, but I think that we are closing politics off to the great majority of people who could bring diversity to our representation, but who cannot win with this system, and wouldn’t ever try to. In Barrow I think John Woodcock being selected is fantastic – he will make a great MP and I hope to make a trip up to campaign for him. But as much as I might like to have a Parliament of John’s, I don’t think it would be particularly healthy for democracy, and I think that’s the way we are heading.

    What are your own prescriptions for widening representation in Parliament?

    On the CFWD research, I think it would have been a bit more helpful if you had highlighted that 27% of all Conservative candidates selected through open primaries are women, rather than the 15% which only applies to seats where MPs are retiring. This figure is higher than in the traditional selections which is 25%. And 27% selection of women in open primaries is not that far off our own paltry selection rate of 30%, so I don’t know why you think primaries are going to be the blow to equality that you seem to suggest. In any case, I have already argued that the Labour Party could continue to hold all women shortlists, so even if the public didn’t select women, they would be forced to in some circumstances if the party wanted to.

    Evidence from the US shows that particularly Democratic women running in primaries, don’t seem to fare less well than their male colleagues http://www.allacademic.com//meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/1/5/2/3/3/pages152331/p152331-4.php
    Interestingly this analysis suggests that in America at least, the reason why women are underrepresented is because the jobs they do don’t lead into a political career. That may not have any relevance to the UK, but I think that the reasons behind women’s lack of representation is much deeper than the method of selection. And frankly, given that we had to introduce AWS in order to boost our own figures, I can’t see how you can defend the Labour Party’s own record on selecting women!

    I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again – I do not think that primaries are a magic bullet. I think there are democratic reforms which are more important such as introducing proportional representation, but we also need to have a long hard look at how we select and who we select in the Labour Party, because if we stick with the status quo with our membership increasingly falling, I think we will be become a fringe party and our elected representatives will not command the legitimacy which they ought to.

    Best,

    Jessica

  • http://www.progressonline.org.uk Jessica Asato

    Hi Luciana,

    Thanks for responding. I will try and answer all your points.

    I think that the type of primary does matter very much indeed. Obviously it will be much easier for people with wealth to influence an open primary with no spending limits, than it would the system Progress is suggesting. But you’re right, you will still need some money in order to win a primary. My response to this is to reiterate the fact that if the number of people who are turning out to support you are only in the lower thousands, the money you would have to raise would not be prohibitive. As we know from Barack Obama’s campaign, it was the small donations from individuals which helped so much and kept people engaged with what Obama did. It’s been these donations which have helped to get the healthcare bill through too. In a way, primaries could help us to think about building support from the people, rather than simply reaching into our own, or the union’s pockets for support.

    As for your point about spending in between primary selections, well one answer to that would be to regulate that too. Either cap it or outlaw it big spending. I wish we’d done the same for General Election spending with Ashcroft. I support state funding of political parties in any case and if Labour had had more guts we would have introduced it.

    I don’t think you can credit Berlusconi’s rise because of spending money on primaries. I think it’s more to do with the media empire he has built which allows him free rein to purchase people’s support. As for Bloomberg, once again, I’m not talking about the US system – in America it’s illegal to cap election spending, so it’s no wonder that only rich people can get elected.

    I think that your worries on spending are genuine but as long as you design the system right, I don’t think they are justified.

    You didn’t answer my point fully about what you think is so great about the current system where wealth and patronge play such a big part? Do you think it is fair that someone who has enough money, and is in a political job and therefore is given time off, has a better advantage in a Labour selection than someone who works outside of politics on the average wage? I am not saying that people who are selected in the current process won’t make great MPs, but I think that we are closing politics off to the great majority of people who could bring diversity to our representation, but who cannot win with this system, and wouldn’t ever try to. In Barrow I think John Woodcock being selected is fantastic – he will make a great MP and I hope to make a trip up to campaign for him. But as much as I might like to have a Parliament of John’s, I don’t think it would be particularly healthy for democracy, and I think that’s the way we are heading.

    What are your own prescriptions for widening representation in Parliament?

    On the CFWD research, I think it would have been a bit more helpful if you had highlighted that 27% of all Conservative candidates selected through open primaries are women, rather than the 15% which only applies to seats where MPs are retiring. This figure is higher than in the traditional selections which is 25%. And 27% selection of women in open primaries is not that far off our own paltry selection rate of 30%, so I don’t know why you think primaries are going to be the blow to equality that you seem to suggest. In any case, I have already argued that the Labour Party could continue to hold all women shortlists, so even if the public didn’t select women, they would be forced to in some circumstances if the party wanted to.

    Evidence from the US shows that particularly Democratic women running in primaries, don’t seem to fare less well than their male colleagues http://www.allacademic.com//meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/1/5/2/3/3/pages152331/p152331-4.php
    Interestingly this analysis suggests that in America at least, the reason why women are underrepresented is because the jobs they do don’t lead into a political career. That may not have any relevance to the UK, but I think that the reasons behind women’s lack of representation is much deeper than the method of selection. And frankly, given that we had to introduce AWS in order to boost our own figures, I can’t see how you can defend the Labour Party’s own record on selecting women!

    I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again – I do not think that primaries are a magic bullet. I think there are democratic reforms which are more important such as introducing proportional representation, but we also need to have a long hard look at how we select and who we select in the Labour Party, because if we stick with the status quo with our membership increasingly falling, I think we will be become a fringe party and our elected representatives will not command the legitimacy which they ought to.

    Best,

    Jessica

  • Robert

    I really do not really care, after forty years I’ve left Labour sorry New labour, it can do as it likes I will not be coming back…

  • Robert

    I really do not really care, after forty years I’ve left Labour sorry New labour, it can do as it likes I will not be coming back…